Report 1247
Report #1247 Skillset: Starhymn Skill: Recessional Org: Cantors Status: Completed Nov 2016 Furies' Decision: Solution 1. Problem: With the overhaul, Recessional has seen a dramatic drop in effectiveness. Whereas previously, it would assist in blocking curing of aurics via horehound, and aeon via blocking of phlegmatic, these have been shifted to steam balance and now bypass the effect. In addition, the removal of the reliable aeon of PrincessFarewell allows easier coding around this effect with stacked commands as a much greater portion of the fight will be spent outside the effects of aeon. This report aims to bring Recessional closer to its prior level of effectiveness. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Extend the effect of Recessional to also apply to smoking Steam, allowing a Cantor to support auric and aeon effects once more. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: Exchange the auric and aeon-affecting properties of Recessional from pre-overhaul for an increase the proc rate of the effect. This would not consume the associated balance. (Suggested rate: 50-66%. Notably as comparison, as this does not consume the relevant balance, it would remain weaker and less hindering than the proposal for Jitterbug in #1533 which has also suffered a similar plight). 0 R: 0 Solution #3: In addition to either of the above, cause Recessional upon a successful block to allow a negative effect to dissuade spamming to negate this issue such as causing a proc of what is currently the vomiting effect when triggered. Alternatively, briefly steal the associated balance. (0.5s-0.8s, as to not adversely affect in-aeon curing). Player Comments: ---on 10/19 @ 01:31 writes: What cure balances does recessional affect currently? ---on 10/19 @ 07:51 writes: Its 33% on eating and drinking anything, no delay or cd. ---on 10/19 @ 11:57 writes: Ok, a few things come to mind, I don't think it's a good idea to have this block aeon curing itself, but I'm not opposed to it blocking aurics/earwort. It already has a chance to block asthma and anorexia in aeon, which is strong in itself even without taking balance. I'm also opposed to the 50-66% chance of blocking the locking affs to make up for not affecting aeon. Would leaving it at 33% and having it just block aurics/earwort be acceptable? ---on 10/20 @ 03:23 writes: So I'm not really understanding your opposition to bringing Recessional back to its pre-overhaul status when that is your entire premise for buffing Jitterbug in report #1533. Care to explain what the difference between the premises and proposed solutions relative to the pre-overhaul status quo are? ---on 10/21 @ 00:01 writes: It's simple really, I'm not asking Jitterbug to return to it's exact status as it was pre overhaul. If that was the case, I would be asking for aeon and the rest of the steam afflictions to be affected by it because they all previously had herb cures (aeon was cured by reishi in addition to phlegmatic). I think it's too strong and made concessions in my report to make it as useful to minstrels while not making it overly strong. I'm making the same argument here. I think blocking aeon cure itself is too strong. ---on 10/21 @ 11:37 writes: Hmm. I share some of Synkarin's concerns. I don't think solution 1 should be an extension, in other words I think it's too strong that that one ability could block curing stupidity (which makes curing aeon harder), asthma (which makes curing aeon impossible), and aeon itself. Not that you folks necessarily have a way to perform that setup solo but in groups it sounds viable. This is a buff from what it was pre overhaul because pre overhaul this ability would not have impacted either asthma (curable by a salve) or anorexia/stupidity (curable by focus mind). I would be more okay with a version of solution 1 that just impacted steam and nothing else. I have similar concerns with solution 2 and asthma. Do you folks have a means to inflict with asthma? If someone had asthma and stupidity in solution 2 their odds of getting a puritydust command through would be about 24.75% - 37.5% depending on the proc rate chosen (66% and 50% respectively) which seems very low to me, for a point of reference at that level of command blocking it would take 9 attempts before the chance of not succeeding to cure would drop below 10% which means that depending on RNG you could lock someone in aeon for a significant amount of time with that setup (although I don't know how soloable that setup is). Solution 3 with a 0.5s delay sounds okay to me, since that would strictly be a buff outside of aeon which is less scary imo. ---on 10/21 @ 12:35 writes: I have to say the comments above regarding Sol 2 puzzle me. You're essentially saying a proposed 50% to block dust/slush which doesn't consume cure balance is too much, but at the same time 50% chance to block these balances *and* consume the cure balance is perfectly okay. As a comparison, given that both slush and dust are at 1s or above, the Minstrelry report where these numbers are currently being supported is the equivalent of my Solution 2 but with the added bonus of the target's curing of asthma/stupidity being kept under an aeon-esque delay pressure permanently. That said, I'd prefer to move towards either Sol 2 or 3 over Sol 1, as I really would like to move Starhymn away from the aeon focus (see pfarewell change). ---on 10/21 @ 13:17 writes: @Raeri - it's not a straight 50% buff I'm asking for to block dust/slush but a 50% with diminishing effectiveness. The other solution I'm presenting is 50% for just slush and bard steam affs. You're asking for 50-66% effectiveness for the 2 most immediate aeon cure blocking afflictions where I'm asking for slush balance (not even the most immediate block) at 50% all the time. For the record, my solution 2 is the one being supported (slush/bard steam affs at 50%), not dust+slush+bard steam affs. I'm willing to support Recessional affect steam affs except aeon at 33% effectiveness, is that really too much to compromise on? ---on 10/22 @ 01:06 writes: Hmm. I could see going with something like having Solution 1 (without affecting aeon) but with a small effect upon successfully blocking curing or something, like in a hybrid of the current Sol1+3? - I kind of just want dissuade command stacking from making it completely useless. What're your views on adding non- aeon steam affs via Sol 1 at 33% and causing a damage tick of some sort to the target upon blocking the cure? ---on 10/22 @ 16:43 writes: My main issue is the spread between so many balances, the jitterbug report asks for essentially 2.5 balances (of our four overhaul total) which I'll admit I misread when I supported it and have added another comment to it. This report (in sol 1) is asking for three balances of the four (lucidity, dust, and steam), due to the lack of cd (in all solutions except 3) it won't impact people really outside of aeon/sap which is why I've focused on that. I'd rather this ability impact one subset of cures (like steam) and pushed the balance by 0.5-0.75s so that it actually did something outside of aeon but couldn't be used in combination with an asthma source to keep someone in aeon for a long period of time. ---on 10/22 @ 17:44 writes: 1 is fine ---on 10/22 @ 18:41 writes: What kind of damage are we talking about? I could get behind that if it's not too extreme. ---on 10/23 @ 06:24 writes: Oops I missed a comment in here. Damage on proc works for me as long as it's not too high. ---on 10/24 @ 11:27 writes: I was thinking somewhere in the region of 5 to 7.5%. ---on 10/27 @ 00:16 writes: I'm done with 5% ---on 11/3 @ 13:09 writes: I think 5% is okay, I dislike the idea that if someone is really super unlucky they could kill themselves with that even without spamming but we can always tweak that number later. I don't believe I've weighed in on the solutions since you reworked them. I personally would like to see solution 3 with damage as the drawback, I would however not like it combined with either solution 1 (because I feel that eating/drinking/smoking is too many curative actions for one skill to cover) or solution 2 which I feel gives too high of a proc rate.